And I thought we had seen the end of Plessy v. Ferguson's influence.
Riddle me this: is segregation considered segregation when it's voluntary?
I find this one a little fascinating, myself.
Read the story HERE and respond with your views.
What is the issue here? Bearing in mind, if you recall from history class, the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s, is this a return to the old times? Or is this something else?
What does this say about other cases? Is it wrong for private institutions, such as The Citadel, to attempt to deny women the right to enter? (They lost that case). What about the Augusta National Golf Club denying entrance to women? Or is it different if it is race, and not gender? Can a person voluntarily segregate themselves from the rest of society if they choose? Why or why not?
Answers in 300-500 words, please.
MP
P.S. Since my name has become synonymous with "Late Blog Posting", this little baby is due on WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2011, when we won't have class anyway. So, good luck with that...MP
The issue that comes up in this article is segregation reoccurring in schools but this time voluntary and not as strict. This article shocked me because of the many efforts back in the day to end segregation in schools and create diversity. I realize there will always be problems with race and gender but I believe this is adding to the problem. Diversity is so prevalent these days whether being on a college campus or inside a high school. I believe it is important to have diversity or else the world would become boring and somewhat scary. I do feel this is a return to the old times in a way. I know back then it was far worse but enhancing segregation in schools little by little is slowly going back to what we had. As far as other cases go I feel this relates to them in some ways and seeing that these cases were all overturned and ruled against means segregation should not be coming back and people need to leave it behind them. Race and gender are far different from each other in the sense that race is much more demining, but at the same time, gender issues were heavily prevalent in the old days and if they are coming up again, the same situation is occurring with race. It is startling to hear people actually want to become segregated and are doing so at their own will. People can have their own opinions and wish for this to happen but in reality segregation will never happen the way it did long ago. I feel if people want to become segregated then I am not stopping them, that is their decision, but to me the decision is crazy and should not be something anyone wants. Did they not see what segregation does to America? That was a main issue and problem back in the day and kept America from being united as one. If they want that to occur again then they shouldn’t be living here.
ReplyDeleteAccording to its definition, segregation is still segregation, even if it’s voluntary. However, the issue is not about African Americans fighting for entry to predominantly white schools; instead, the article focuses on the idea of scholastic segregation to improve test scores.
ReplyDeleteI do not consider this type of segregation to be a return to old times, but it does come with several problems that could become serious issues and raise racial tensions. Separating students by race because of their test scores promotes competition between students. Small children enjoy playing games with boys versus girls to prove which side is better. Using the same concept, if the idea is to improve scores, then instead of making two competitive teams, why not make one study group that will support each other?
Segregating students seems to imply that one side is lesser than the other. Students who need extra help (or are told they need extra help because of their race) may feel hurt or be resentful, which could cause more rebellion. Separating by race enforces stereotypes, even if it isn’t intended. Students who need individual attention may feel inferior, or not as smart; they will begin to believe there is something wrong with them instead of the educational system.
The program has good intentions and is not of a malignant nature and exists to unify students with a specific purpose, and not to tear them apart. However, race isn’t the real issue with education. The educational system and its standardized tests are the true problems. Instead of focusing on learning, children are taught how to take and pass tests and don’t gain useful skills to successfully complete college. If the educators at McCaskey East High School want to make a positive difference, they are going about it the wrong way.
The time specifically allotted for African Americans to meet and improve their skills is not enough. Six minutes a day and twenty minutes every now and then is not enough time to do anything, except for maybe discuss the weather. If teachers aim to improve test scores, a program should be set up after school so that students can focus on their individual educational needs. In the video, it was stated that students do better with a positive influence of their own race. There’s no reason to argue about it because students have the freedom to choose their own role model. If an after school program is made, I say, why not hire teachers of both races and let pupils choose whom they wish to mentor them? This way, segregation is not necessary, and learning becomes a matter of preference and not national debate. I could see how some might argue that this is racist, but if women feel more comfortable with a female gynecologist, does it make them sexist? The most important thing is to meet the needs of the students in the best way possible. I do not believe segregating by race is the answer.
-Katelyn Stouffer
This article by Monika Plocienniczak talks about the McCaskey East High School students voluntarily segregating themselves to better their education. In the article it says that they are separated by race and gender for six minutes a day to try and "boost their academic scores." The first thing I thought is what is six minutes a day going to do for these students? Six minutes surely is not enough time to learn anything and really understand it thoroughly. These students are taught by mentors that they can look up to and teachers that they are more comfortable with.
ReplyDeleteThe thing I really didn't understand was that they only talked about black students whom they took and split up to help better their education. They said that not even a third of the black students in that school scored proficient on reading, and even fewer aced math. I understand that the black students are having a hard time with learning those types of subjects, but what about white students? I'm sure many white students in that school are having just as hard of a time. They should not be dividing the students by race but by who out of everyone in that school is struggling. Everyone should have an equal oportunity for help.
They are choosing to segregate themselves which confuses me the most because black people and white people were segregated so long ago and now we have gotten to this day and age where we don't have to be but we're choosing to be? Does that make any sense at all?
At the end of the day, as long as students are learning and being helped that's great. The only thing I will say is that they should not believe in one thing (anti-segregation) and do something that is the total opposite (segregating themselves by race). It doesn't make sense.
Even if it is voluntary, separating people based on race and gender is still segregation. The issue is that despite the schools attempt to raise test scores, which is a good thing and they should be encouraged to find ways to raise the scores, the students are being segregated. And not everyone, despite some positive results from studies is sure the school is going about the problem in the right way. Some feel although it is good to have role models who come from your background and you can relate to, separating students based on gender will only make the students feel inadequate even if they are not the ones with the low test scores. I feel although, the school had good intentions if they are going to separate students it should be based on test scores. And the amount of time given doesn’t seem like it is even enough to change scores. This is not like old times, but it has enough similarities for people to compare it to old times, creating the uproar over the issue. But, something people should be more concerned over like the video attached to the article said is, non deliberate segregation. Where districts aren’t diversified, and schools are basically segregated because of the neighborhoods around them. Cases like this make people call into question segregation in private institutions. Things get slippery when you are talking about public vs. private institutions, like golf courses and schools. I do not feel that there should be a difference between race and gender; I do not feel gender discrimination should be okay just because it isn’t racial discrimination. A person can segregate themselves, for example all boy or all girls’ schools are segregation but they are voluntary. The difference between those schools and the one talked about in the article is all boys and all girls schools are private so they are allowed to be segregated by gender if they chose. Public schools however, have laws against segregation because of past cases of discrimination and segregation like Plessy V. Ferguson.
ReplyDelete-Michelle Dawe
Segregation is still segregation whether it be voluntary or not. This article was very deeply disturbing in talking about separating students based upon their race, gender, and language spoken. Americans have fought for equal rights for so many years now, and saying that 'voluntary segregation' is okay completely undermines the purpose of equality. Just by putting the word 'voluntary' before segregation does NOT make it okay. If teachers are doing their jobs in classrooms and educating all of their students the same, test scores should be equal based upon class and teacher rather than color, gender or language. Separating students into these 'voluntary' groups, does nothing but make them realize that they are different than their peers and almost forms a 'who is better' competition between races and genders.Although people can choose whether they segregate themselves in society, it does not make it right for schools, government or anyone for that matter to promote segregation. The bottom line of this story is that they are offering segregation, which is not okay. The United States has made it this far in fighting the war on segregation, and now it is being put into schools and comparing students. This idea makes no sense and makes our country look like they are going backwards in time rather than making progress when it comes to segregation and equal rights.
ReplyDelete-Kaitlyn Huml
I agree with Kaitlyn. The article does mention that the student voluntarily segregate themselves however, the struggles of the black community to rid themselves of segregation throughout the 1950s and 1960s should be remembered. Regardless if this experiment works or not, it is still promoting segregation which could have long term effects on the students, the school district, the teachers and even neighboring communities. For example, if the statistics show that the experiment was a success, this would further promote segregation and could repeal the decision which would send us into a time warp back into the 1950s yet again. As for other cases such as the Citadel refusing to admit women, the same rules should apply to them as to public institutions. This is just another form of segregation applied to women rather than an ethnicity or race. As for the question of why anyone would voluntarily segregate themselves, I believe that the answer to that question would be that the students want to improve their grades and are being mis-led by their faculty to believe that segregating themselves will boost their scores. I think this article is absolutely sickening and just goes to show that some people take the struggles of their forefathers for granted. I think every single one of these students involved needs to continue to do research on the civil rights movement and see how long their struggles lasted and what was entailed in their battle.
ReplyDelete-David Hacker
This was a pretty interesting article to read for me mainly because half of my junior year in high school was filled with different segregation policies and Supreme Court rulings. It is difficult to say whether or not segregating students based on race and sex is the proper way to raise students test scores, but research is showing that it helps. However, McCaskey East is only doing it for six minutes a week and twenty minutes a month. Honestly how much of a difference can those six minutes make in the school day? It seems pointless to even separate the students for such a short time. Other than the fact that no one really knows if this will work or not, there is the point that for so long the African American people had struggled to fight to get their kids into schools with the white children. What would the Civil Rights leaders think about what is being tried at McCaskey East? I don't believe that they would be very happy with what is happening. They fought for numerous years to get their children into the schools, and now they are choosing to be segregated (at the junior class level). On an ending note in the article, the author brings up the fact that girls that are in a female only school do better and are more prepared to continue their education. Has anyone ever thought that the females in those prep schools do better because they are not surrounded by the drama of a normal high school? They also do not get so easily distracted because of boys considering the fact that boys are non-existent in their school. It makes much more sense to me that segregation by gender may help students do well, rather than the racial segregation. The schools that are segregated by gender can also tailor the way the material is learned because the facts show that males and females learn differently.
ReplyDeleteThe issue here is segregation itself. Segregation was erased in America for a reason. I am having very mixed feelings about this article because I strongly oppose racism. I understand that the schools would like to test out new ways to better education but I feel that this should have been done so in a case study privately, not open to a school. In a way, they are making things seem how they were in the old days, even if the students volunteer to do this.
ReplyDeleteI don’t know if this is right or wrong but I sort of feel different when it comes to gender separation. I guess an example for my defense would be that girls can easily be distracted by boys during school but a colored student should not be distracted by a white student, or vice versa. Even though I feel this way I contradict myself because I still think it should be equal between males and females. If any segregation is going on I believe the students should be able to choose the people that are like them in terms of characteristics like intelligence, not simply by race.
America is supposed to be all about “freedom” hence the reason we can choose our own religion. Would you call going to different churches segregation? I think segregation can be a very broad topic.
In conclusion of my analysis, I don’t believe races should be separated. The education of the students is the only thing that should be enhanced in schools and in professional and noncontroversial ways.
-C. Lough
After reading the article and watching the video, I don't think this is a return to the old times of segregation in schools. I think this is just an attempt by a school district to help kids learn more and become more motivated towards the future. However, like Pedro DeGara said( I might have misspelled his name), the schools need to be careful with what they are doing. I am all for schools trying to help students learn, but they shouldn't be discriminated by race, or even gender. Other cases that segregation has happened prove to show that it is wrong to segregate certain races or genders from others. I think that in the melting pot of America, we shouldn't feel the need to distance ourselves from any particular demographic. I think that America society is more acceptable about gender segregation than racial discrimination, due to the fact that all-boy and all-girl schools do exist. Still, even gender segregation is still segregating groups of kids from their peers, and decreasing the variety of their peer group. I think that a person could voluntarily segregate themselves from society, if by that you mean become a hermit and go into hiding. They still wouldn't be able to completely avoid society though; they would sooner or later have to deal with people. All in all human beings should not try to separate themselves from any others. Diversity in all aspects of life is what makes life interesting.
ReplyDelete-Matt Labyk
Just to get it on the first page of the thread, this segregation refers to 6 minutes per day and a further 20 twice a month. It's done voluntarily, by the students themselves, usually "by gender, race and/or language". The article does not seem to say what's going on during those 6 minutes a day, but common sense says it's not class work and almost certainly not teacher-led at all.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, separating them by academic achievement is an excuse for separating them by race. Unless every single one of them needs the assistance, there's no reason to just group them all into one homeroom simply due to race. I'm sure that there were some of them that were doing a good job in their study. And what about all the white kids that did poorly? Wouldn't it be better if you grouped them in as well? Why not work with the kids who need some role models to boost the academic grades instead of with the race that contains a large percentage of those kids.
Ideally, the school system would periodically test children and place them in the difficulty range. The top range would be taught at the fastest rate, while the classes below would be taught curriculum in an attempt to push them to the next class level before the grade finished. Even if this does not occur, the fact that they are separated by intellect will insure all the kids get the very best education possible for their brain size, without the class being held up to make time for, let’s face it, dumb kids (Whether by nurture or nature, a shit ton of children are just plain stupid)
However, the reason segregation was ruled unconstitutional is that, separate is inherently unequal. Even if it were to boost scores, that's still numbers. The whole point of raising the score number is that higher scores correlate with happier, more successful students. So here, they're going, "These studies show that segregation correlates with better scores, which correlate with better futures." They've lost sight of the fact that schools are meant to educate the students on an academic level, while also enforcing the ideals of our country. Segregating students, even if it boosted the students’ scores by 10%, would be blatantly against contemporary America's pursuit of opportunities based neither on sex nor race, but on who they are as a human being.
The article also addresses the fact that "Studies show" benefits from single-sex education. And yes, I did attend an all-women's college, but I'd like to point out that there are, say... 60, according to Wikipedia. How many colleges are there period? Most segregated women's schools have a historical background, going back even as far as a century back. These places are going to have more funding, and a higher standard than the national average of all single-sex schools.
The issue in the video was about segregation in the school system. I dont think segregation can be considered segregation if it's voluntary because if the people who are being segregated are fine with it then whats the issue? But if one of the white students or any other ethnicity for that matter wanted to be apart of that class or just get more help like they are then that would be an issue because it wouldnt be fair to them not to be able to do something because of their race. I wouldnt go as far as to say that this can be considered as a return to old times like the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's because back then people were not only segregated but discriminated against as well. Plus segregation back then was much more intense like having to sit in the back of the bus and having to drink out of certain water fountains. I think this case of segregation is alot different compared to cases with private institutions, such as The Citadel, attempting to deny women the right to enter or the Augusta National Golf Club denying entrance to women because the video never said anything about difeerent ethnicitys trying to be apart of it and being denied access i bet if someone who wasnt african american that wanted to be apart of it could make a good enough case so that you didnt have to just be african american to be apart of it even though its based off of mentoring specifically for african americans whos to say other ethnicitys cant be mentored the same way. i belive a person can voluntarily segregate themselves from the rest of society if they choose because whose to stop them from doin so if someone wants to only be around people of the same ethnicity or gender and have the ability to do so whos to stop them from doing that cause i dont think you can force someone not to you can only encourage them to or persuade them.
ReplyDeleteSegregation still exists whether it's voluntary or involuntary. People are usually drawn to people who look similar to them, it's psychology 101, however; intentionally segregating students, even for academic purposes, is taking a giant leap backwards for society and shouldn't be allowed. I'm curious to see what studies were done to show this could possibly help, and how it is allowed to happen in a public school. When it comes to gender, however, I personally felt an advantage with me going to an all girl's school since it's shown that boys and girls do learn differently, but race has nothing to do with how people learn.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe in segregation because I think everyone is equal and no matter what students are going to learn at different levels. Even if they are with people of the same race, some students focus there time on other things than school and some don't. I went to a high school with very little different races, but I wouldn't of liked if my school would of been separated by race. I think this would be a step back into how things used to be. Which in my thoughts is not good. How are students to act when they go to college or end up moving and going to another high school and they are separated into races for those couples minutes. It could be a major shock to someone that young and bringing them into a new environment. I think there are other ways to increase the schools ratings and learning levels then taking this approach. Students need different cultures and races because no matter where they go in life they won't be in high school all there life in there own race.
ReplyDeleteSegregation is always wrong no matter how you look at it. In cases like this as long as it is voluntary I think we should let it go. There are many things in this country that are wrong but we continue to ignore them for example many pedophiles get only one year in prison but most people let this go even though it is one of the most appalling problems with our criminal justice system. I do how ever think that this segregation is unnecessary I would not believe that there is not any Caucasian, Asian, or Latin American children in this school with low test scores our grades. They should use these time to help benefit all the students that are suffering academically. While I don’t think that this case is that big a deal, I also don’t think that most Americans are mature or progressive enough to be able to handle any segregation at all. So it segregation should be avoided when possible. This article reminds me of a video I saw a few weeks ago in my Intro. To Soc. class so I guess it is a good thing I am doing this blog so late. The documentary was about a California Berkley area high school in 1994. The high school in question was and still may be one of the most diverse high schools in the country. The school had large portions of White, Black, Chicano, Mexican, and Asian students. The school had large amounts of voluntary segregation outside of the classroom at the students choice. This lead to this high school to being the only high school in the nation with an African American studies department at the time. While the documentary was being filmed the Chicano students had a walk out and a rally to protest for a Chicano studies department. The segregation in this school lead to the Chicano students feeling marginalized by their school. This also lead to some problems between the Chicano students and Mexican students because many Mexican students refused to protest because the were not Chicano. Segregation never works and more often than not leads to trouble. I believe that the only segregation that should be legal in this country should be based on gender and even then only for our jails and prisons.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the article and watching the video I still have concluded that even though the segregation is voluntary, it was still initiated by the school, the students would not have thought of this idea on their own. Not to say it's a bad idea, but I do think that the only way the students should be seperated is by gender, race has nothing to do with people's learning techniques and should not be taken into account in a school system. I understand that it was only for 6 minutes a day, but it's still a starting point which could potentially increase over time if the results are working in the schools favor. Diversity is an important ascpect of a childs learning experience and shouldn't be cut short even if it is only for 6 minutes a day and 20 minutes two times a month. The differences in male and female learning styles have been researched and proven for many years, especially in learning math and science for woman and english and social studies for men. I attended an all-girls high school after having trouble focusing in my previous public/coed middle school. I immediately felt more focused and comforatable when I first started my high school. My high school was notorious for good test scores and 99% of the students went to college; although the size of the school (400 girls) may have also helped these statistics, I think a lot can be attributed to the fact that it was all girls.
ReplyDeleteI think that allowing extra time and care for any kind of student would be beneficial to their overall academic status. I do not agree that students should be separated by race or language. What does the gender really say about a person? Yes you could group all the hispanic, asian, and african american kids together, but what does that really do. Also what about children of mixed ethnicity? I know some children now a days have a hard time on trying to identify which race they belong in, if they were brought up not really having to think about it. How would they be separated? I agree that gender separation might have some positive points, as you would not have the hormonal distraction of the opposite sex during the prime teenage years that happens in high school. Race just really does not have to do with a persons ability to learn, I agree that the school is being proactive by at least trying something new to better their students, but I doubt that the students would have picked out this outcome for themselves.
ReplyDeleteThe article by Monika Plocienniczak is about segregation, It focuses on segregation with in schools. In the article it talks about how a Pennsylvania school separated some student by race, gender, and language for a 6 minutes each day and 20 twice a month in an effort to raise academics. I personally don’t think the school should separate the students even if it is volunteer, because maybe after the program is up what the students stay separated and for groups this is just going to cause problems. I don’t think that where take steps back to the and returning to old times, but I believe that the way gangs are building up in today society that if schools separate students that students will gain the habit of staying separated and then maybe kids in gangs will start there on group with in the school. Then thinking about on our own campus I guess you could say that Greek life can be a form of segregation, females can’t join fraternities and males can’t join sororities. But I’m sure if a female wanted to join a fraternity or a male wanted to join a sorority that if the person trying to get in was denied that they could make a good cases to get in. But my overall beliefs is believe that anyone can voluntarily segregate themselves if you look around it’s everywhere, what you have to be worried about is separation like there practicing in this school you have to realize what age level your dealing with because some time kids can take stuff to far and what started out as volunteer project could be blow out of proportion and next thing you know it’s these group of kids have that side of the lunch room and those kids have the other side, the idea of separation is just a bad idea I think the school should have defiantly thought more about this subject before they acted.
ReplyDelete-Stephen Streets
The issue in the article is that a Pennsylvania school is experimenting with segregation. First off, I feel it’s wrong for our educational system to experiment with its students. School should to prepare people for life and educate young people, not do experiments on them. I think segregation will always exist in America due to multiculturalism. It’s human nature for people to surround themselves with people similar to them. It depends on the individuals values and interests that determine the type of segregation whether it be by race, gender, or even taste in music. I think there should be no institutionalized segregation ever, as people naturally segregate themselves from people unlike them. This experiment also goes against the ‘melting pot’ our country’s founders planned our country to be. The segregation the school has in place should be replaced with time where if anything, students are given time to segregate themselves naturally and be with people they relate to. I think some private intuitions should be able to be selective about membership. If a group of any race of gender of people want to start some sort of private group regarding pretty much anything, why shouldn’t they be able to choose members?
ReplyDelete-DylanPalchesko
I do not necessarily have anything against this "experiment" that the Pennsylvania school was administering, seeing as they're form of "segregation" was not as apparent as they could have made it, but it's still one that raises eyebrows. For everyone in this country, this poses to be a very finicky issue, and must be treated carefully not to get out of hand and cause outrage among racially diverse communities, especially with a force like NAACP involving themselves in this, and proposing "neighborhood schools systems". Now, with the issue of voluntary segregation...I think it's nothing to be surprised off, considering we see it happening all the time. You walk into any high school cafeteria, and you're bound to see at least one table full of African-Americans sitting by themselves. And the reason it's as such, is because it's designated so, implicitly, and all the other white kids know not to approach, or just prefer not to sit there because it's foreign territory to them. All the lines are clearly drawn and well understood even to this day, yet people still hesitate and don't want to recognize or speak up about the boundaries. They might not be boundaries with as strong racial tension as before, but they're still ones that pose a distinction, a subtle form of segregation. But why, you ask? I believe it's a way of identity for all the people of diverse races. Just like there's cultural identity, there's racial identity, and an almost easier distinction. Actually, both are very closely interlaced, and for example most African-Americans, share very similar cultures, helping them connect and relate on a much greater, easily comfortable level. Maybe that's why the productivity levels of the "segregated" classrooms were much higher, because the individuals felt right in a comfortable environment that committed them to do well and excel in their work. Voluntary segregation, is mostly a choice. We have seen this happening for a while now, and have learned to accept it.
ReplyDelete